February 14 2010
It is well known that you have to put some serious weight to add some serious muscle. Bodybuilders often call this the bulking phase where they try to gorge on food and gain as much weight as they can.
The belief is that the greater the weight gain, the greater the calories partitioned to muscle and hence greater the muscle gain. This is why bodybuilders look like fat tubs in the off season.
But it is becoming increasingly clear that higher fat levels can decrease muscle gain.
Forbe’s Theory: In 1980’s, Forbe’s showed that there is a logarithmic relation between fat gain and lean body mass gain. He showed that the extent of LBM gain or loss depend on the initial body fat in humans and other species.
Basically, lower your body fat, better your muscle gains when you overeat. As you put on more fat, your muscle gain tend to decrease. Lean people show 30-70% of LBM gain and obese people show 30-40% of LBM gain with overeating.
Anecdotal Evidence: There has always been some anecdotal evidence that natural folks tend to gain the most muscle at 10-15% body fat. Beyond 15%, you tend to gain more fat and less muscle.
Insulin Resistance: The decrease in muscle mass with increasing fat can largely be attributed to the insulin resistance in the muscle with increasing fat accumulation.
The recent animal study was the first to show that increase fat levels can directly blunt muscle protein synthesis via the insulin pathway. Mice fed a high fat diet and loaded (akin to weight training) for 30 weeks. The mice in high fat group put on 31% more weight than the low fat group.
The results showed a significant decrease in the muscle mass and the activation of key members of the muscle growth pathway in the high fat group. (It’s an animal study so take it with a grain of salt)
Anatoly | Sun February 14, 2010
Great as usual.
Q: “Some cardio on off days can decrease insulin resistance acutely and may help with muscle gain.”
Does it mean that by doing cardio I can be above 15% fat level and still enjoy high rates of mass gain?
Thanks
Anoop | Sun February 14, 2010
Hi Anatoly,
Thanks. You might be able to increase protein synthesis a bit more than if you didn’t do any cardio. I don’t want to give out any numbers and end up looking like the T-nation writers (;-
Insulin resistance is the mechanism behind the protein synthesis blunting. It can increase protein degradation too. So it maybe very well that if you can decrease insulin resistance, you may get some benefits.
If you take a wider perspective, what the article really shows is the interdependency of muscle and fat though we often classify them as separate tissues governed by individual laws .
do you do any cardio in the off season?
Anatoly | Sun February 14, 2010
>do you do any cardio in the off season?
Unfortunately, no.
I don’t have time. I lift 3 times a week and if I add another 2 sessions of cardio in week my wife will throw me out of house. 😊
anoop | Sun February 14, 2010
As they say , it’s all about priorities. what is more important? Wifey or looking hugee? :cheese:
I think a workable option is do do some high rep training for the muscles that aren’t been trained that day. for example, if it’s a chest day, you can do a couple of sets of 20-25 reps of back (not to failure)at the end of your workout.
Acute increase in insulin sensitivity is contraction & muscle specific. this effect is independent of the whole body blood glucose lowering effect.
and mind you all this is just a hypothesis. but it has some biological plausibility. I am careful when I write articles like these because I don’t want to commit the same mistake that I blame others for.
Thanks to exercise biology now you can get huge and still have your wife (:-
Anatoly | Sun February 14, 2010
>I think a workable option is do do some high rep training for the muscles that aren’t been trained that day. for example, if it’s a chest day, you can do a couple of sets of 20-25 reps of back (not to failure)at the end of your workout.
That’s very interesting. I must try it some day
this post was relly good one .i too was confused as every one told one need to bulk up to gain muscle . and as i feel now if one gain some muscle from bulking up and then loose same hard earned muscle while cutting down fat makes no sense. i think we end up with no gains . the only people gianing is supplment companies who sells fat burning pills and bulking supplemets
Anoop | Wed February 17, 2010
And bulking is a must. We are just debating the degree of the bulk needed.
I think part of the reason people go overboard when they bulk is bcos of the pros they see in the magazines. These guys get up to 260-300lb in their off season. And it works great for them.Why? They are on Test and test your muscles grow and lose fat simultaneously. Also they can easily shred down without losing muscle because of all the other chemicals they pump in.
Jim@TBF | Sun February 21, 2010
This article would seam to support what competitive BBers have claimed for years. That is that they make their best gains the few months after a contest.
I also thought part of the theory was a sort of nutrient partitioning effect, in that a lean body might have the tendency to shuttle extra nutrients to muscles vs. fat stores.
Anoop | Fri February 26, 2010
The nutrient partioning effect is because of the decrease in insulin resistance (or increase in insulin sensitivity). Nutrient partiotioning is just another term for better insulin sensitivty.
When you are around that 14-16% mark, you are not really sure whether you are putting on manily muscle or fat. Unless you have a way to measure body fat, you are just guessing. Most people just think the more you eat, the better for muscle growth philosophy.
Jim@TBF | Sun February 28, 2010
Your right, and from an aesthetic point of view I can not tell what body parts to focus on when covered by the extra fat. I have a friend who I have assisted in losing over 80lbs since August and while he has lost a lot of fat mass, it is still hard to get an idea of his symmetry until he gets down to that 10-12% mark.
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